This Doesn’t Smell Like Rebuilding
by Jon Shields ~ November 21st, 2008
Early in the offseason there was a big debate as to what direction the Seattle Mariners franchise would head after GM Bill Bavasi was fired. Would they rebuild? Perhaps they’d just reload/retool?
The consensus was that a rebuild was coming, simply because that’s what bad teams do. But then the point was made that Seattle can’t rebuild, at least not in the traditional sense. Playing it by the book, Seattle would have to trade their highly paid veterans for as many prospects as possible.
The problem with that is that the highly paid veterans Seattle has are so bad and so overpaid that no one wants them. Miguel Batista, Carlos Silva and Kenji Johjima are untradeable. Jarrod Washburn would bring back hardly anything. Injuries killed Erik Bedard and JJ Putz’s value.
The only players that even come close to fitting the mold are Adrian Beltre and Ichiro Suzuki, but Beltre is thought to be so underrated outside of Seattle that the Type-A compensatory picks garnered for letting him walk via free agency could outweigh any prospect package, and Ichiro’s skillset is such that most teams wouldn’t give up a ton for him, nor would they want to take on his massive contract. Not to mention that the Mariners franchise would hate to lose his off the field contributions (endorsements, international TV contracts, etc).
The situation wasn’t perfect, but we all continued to talk about the upcoming rebuild, especially once Jack Zduriencik was hired as the new GM.
But even now a traditional rebuild seems impossible to pull off. I’ve been thinking that Seattle would be more likely and better off reloading instead.
Well, I think there is a decent possibility that a lot of people are going to be surprised this offseason.
Rumor of the day, from Jason A. Churchill in the comments section at Prospect Insider (#20):
The M’s have called on several free agents, from what I can gather. An agent mentioned to me via email on Wednesday that Seattle has put feelers out on Teixeira, Sheets and Lowe, and have heard them connected to Penny, Wolf, Varitek - yes, Varitek - Pavano, Chad Cordero, Eddie Guardado, Giambi, Vizquel, Adam Everett and Casey Blake, and have talked trade with the Diamondbacks and Cardinals.
Some very interesting stuff there.
It seems possible that the front office suits have changed their opinion about big ticket free agents. Back in September, President Chuck Armstrong mentioned CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira by name as two players Seattle would probably not be pursuing, but perhaps Zduriencik has convinced them otherwise, because since Zduriencik’s hiring both players have been connected to the Mariners; Teixeira above and by SI’s Jon Heyman, and Sabathia by Yahoo!’s Tim Brown.
The list of players provided by Churchill is very interesting. I’ve either written about or had private conversations about the possibility of bringing in over half of these guys, and I think that Seattle could be on to something.
Some observations from this list:
Zduriencik and company must realize that Yuniesky Betancourt is one of the worst shortstops in baseball on both sides of the ball, and they’d rather have an all-defense player there instead. I fully agree with this and have written that I’d rather sign Cesar Izturis than give Betancourt another shot, but Adam Everett is an even better defender. Vizquel has lost a step or three but he is still a defensive asset. The best part is that either guy would come dirt cheap.
Notice all the injured pitchers on this list. Starters Ben Sheets, Brad Penny and Carl Pavano all have shown top of the rotation stuff at times and have put together great seasons, but will all be signed relatively cheap because of injury histories. Pavano will definitely be signed to a one year deal, and its not hard to imagine Penny on a single season deal either.
Reliever Chad Cordero is in the same boat. I’ve already written about a situation in which Seattle deals Putz and signs Cordero as his replacement. It would be a great move, especially if Seattle could flip Cordero at the deadline or the following offseason. Any of these would be great low-risk/high-reward signings, whether that reward is on-field performance or future bounties.
We’ve discussed Giambi and how he’d be a great fit at DH, and we’ve talked about Guardado as well.
The names I don’t quite understand are Lowe and Varitek, and to a lesser extent Blake and Wolf. Lowe has also been linked to Seattle by Heyman. I love Lowe, but at 35 years old he isn’t a good idea, especially if he gets the massive dollars and 5 years that are rumored. We have far too many catchers for Varitek to make sense, especially at the ridiculous dollar amounts agent Scott Boras is pushing. Blake could help the Mariners, but I think he’s going to be paid far more than what he is worth this offseason based on his versatility and a weak 3B market. Wolf just seems unnecessary.
Now, just because Seattle has been “connected” to these teams or “put out feelers,” it doesn’t mean they are actively pursuing any of them. That said, I will take it to mean that this team isn’t willing to sit around and play non-prospects like Jeremy Reed or Bryan LaHair. They’re going to either field a legitimate prospect or fill the hole with a productive major leaguer.
I can hear some of you groaning already, taking these rumors as a step in the wrong direction, but it doesn’t have to be looked at that way. Seattle can reload and rebuild at the same time.
As mentioned at the top of the post, Seattle isn’t in the ideal rebuilding situation, so they have to get creative with it.
An example: Trade Adrian Beltre. Sign Joe Crede to a one or two year deal. Seattle gets prospects for Beltre, and ends up with a new third baseman that is very comparable offensively and defensively, and almost certainly cheaper. Then, you can either trade Crede later on or take the compensatory draft picks if he becomes a Type-A free agent. All the while Seattle doesn’t have to rush Matt Tuiasosopo, who needs more time at AAA. Seattle adds prospects from two different sources without changing the long term plan for the third base position.
Seattle can do the same thing at empty positions. Instead of sticking with a non-prospect who won’t be anything more than a bench player in the future, you can hire a better player as a stopgap to a legitimate prospect. Doing so improves the team in the short term without jeopardizing the future.
I wouldn’t trust such a plan to Bill Bavasi, but I think Zduriencik can handle it.
Seattle could still be very conservative this offseason and may very well commit to rebuilding, whatever that means in our situation, but don’t be surprised if this team does make a splash.
This could be a very interesting offseason.
9 Responses to This Doesn’t Smell Like Rebuilding
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1 November 21st, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Some interesting things. I don’t really see why the Mariners are looking into so many starting pitchers. unless they plan to non-tender Bedard, the rotation is set for half the year.
Bullpen options make sense. Effective and cheap.
Varitek however makes no sense. We already have a catcher overload and probably need to deal Johnson.
Giambi I like. Blake I like. Tex and Sabathia won’t happen, and the SS options are from a pure defensive standpoint which is better than having a good bat, and okay defense.
Interesting to see what happens.
2 November 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 am
I like this post…the M’s could take a very interesting approach to making the team better. It’s too early to get my hopes up, but I think Zduriencik has potential to get this team out of the cellar faster than I first expected.
3 November 22nd, 2008 at 1:55 am
I’d kill for Teixieira or Sabathia, but my gut tells me that neither would even visit Seattle.
Jon: Good job spelling Teixeira correctly! (Only he would understand this).
I don’t see why you would avoid Lowe. His skillset isn’t the power-type pitcher that loses velocity with age. He relies on the movement of his pitches, along with location. I don’t see him hitting a wall. If anything, I think it would be minor decreases in his stats, but nothing insanely drastic that would cause me to avoid him all together.
4 November 22nd, 2008 at 3:49 am
It’s not that he’s going to hit a “wall” necessarily, but just that there is no reason for this team to pay ~$15M a year for any pitcher, especially one as old as Lowe. Considering the team’s situation, the rotation shouldn’t be one of the worries. Hernandez-Bedard-Silva-RRS-Morrow is pretty solid, and better than a lot of teams. Even if Bedard cannot go we still have Washburn and others. Next season Seattle will be without Bedard, Washburn and Batista, and a play can then be made for a good FA pitcher.
Also, I’d avoid Sabathia like the plague. Obviously I’d love for him to be on my team, but it is just too risky to give ANY pitcher so much money and so many years, especially on a team already loaded with bad contracts.
5 November 22nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
I’m not great at this part of the game at all, but I was under the impression that the front office was giving Zduriencik LESS money to work with? Everything I’ve read says that Boras is asking an inhumane amount of money for Teixeira, how would we be able to go through with that?
If we sign Varitek for any reason, I may have to burn SafeCo to the ground…
Giambi seems like a one-year deal to me, if at all; isn’t he getting up there in years? I guess we do need a DH, though, for sure…
6 November 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
I can’t remember if it was ever announced that there was going to be a payroll cut, or if it was just implied/assumed. Either way, if the team wants to sign someone to a big contract they can always change their mind or just backload the contract. I don’t see a Tex or Sabathia signing even if the team gets the okay, though. They have much better options than the worst team in the AL.
Churchill added a comment in that same thread in which he makes the poitn that Zduriencik could just be trying to “feel out” Scott Boras, which could explain the connection to Tex, Varitek and Lowe.
I don’t see either Tex or Lowe signing, but at least they can be justified if you try hard enough. Varitek is such an odd inclusion.
7 November 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
“They have much better options than the worst team in the AL.”
They suuuuure do. haha! I know it’s far too obvious that it won’t happen.
I guess the “feel out” thing seems like a good idea - I wouldn’t think Zduriencik would have much cause to know a whole lot about how Boras operates at that level, so maybe that is indeed what’s going on. Whatever the case, all the suspense is killin’ me.
“Varitek is such an odd inclusion.”
I concur.
8 November 25th, 2008 at 6:09 am
With Dice-K, Okajima and possibly the new kid, Tazawa coming on board….maybe, just maybe, the Red Sox are considering Johjima behind the plate to better handle communcation, if nothing else?
9 November 25th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
^It’s a common connection people make, but you have to think about it like this:
Bringing Johjima in to improve communication with three pitchers would worsen communication with the other 9-10 pitchers.
The Sox are a team with the payroll flexibility, a ballpark that would benefit Johjima, and a vacancy at catcher, but there are much better options for them.
Johjima calls a bad game, is awful at blocking pitches in the dirt, cannot walk to save his life and has suddenly lost his ability to hit. Something has to dramatically change for anyone to seriously consider him at $8M per.
If Seattle were desperate to move him they may look for a contract swap, but there isn’t many terrible contracts that extend through the next 2-3 years (that aren’t on the Mariners, anyway).
The only match I can think of off the top of my head is LA’s Juan Pierre, who is also signed through 2011. Seattle has little use for Pierre, though, and the Dodgers would have to think about moving Russell Martin to third base, something they’ve thought about but would be stupid to do. I don’t see it happening, nor would I want it to happen. Pierre makes more, anyway.