Mariners Deadline Woes
by Dustin Shires ~ August 1st, 2008
As the trade deadline has passed, one can only look back and wonder why the Mariners made so few moves. The only move we made was trading Arthur Rhodes for a potential back-of-the-rotation guy. The Mariners also have not filled Rhodes roster spot yet. Why? I couldn’t tell ya!
The Mariners failed this trade deadline. Interum GM Lee Pelekoudas needed to show that he was up for the challenge of being the Mariners GM. His tenure with the Mariners in 2008 willl determine if he is in consideration for the 2009 GM spot. The trade deadline, at least to me, showed me that he is not the man for the job, in two areas specifically.
First and foremost, Lee Pelekoudas did not shed the baggage that Bill Bavasi brought upon the team. Pelekoudas did not provide some salary relief to this team. His Washburn deal with the Yankees fell through. He was not flexible in that deal, what-so-ever, and he wasn’t flexible in any other deal. Pelekoudas kept around the mistakes of Bavasi, which leads me to wonder, “What are you thinking?!?” He needed to get rid of as much Bavasi-salary as he could have, while still looking towards the future.
Secondly, Pelekoudas had extremely lofty, almost arrogant demands for his trade pieces. Some even characterized the GMs demands as “outrageous.” Arrogant, borderline stupid management of your trade bait will not get you into the final circle of consideration for the 2009 job.
I was cursing at my computer every time I hit refresh. Everytime I hit refresh all I read was “trade dead.” This was not the trade deadline that Mariners needed. We have no way to contend with this team. Shed the Bavasi-baggage.
17 Responses to Mariners Deadline Woes
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1 August 1st, 2008 at 9:27 pm
What are the Mariners doing?
Why do we not have 25 men on the active roster?
What is Washburn doing on the roster?
Why isn’t Vidro DFA’d?
Why don’t we fire the “higher ups” who continually make bad decisions on who to hire? Those are the guys screwing up this team….along with every other person with any say whatsoever.
I, for one, am absolutely disgusted with this franchise. Brace yourselves for several very bad years….
2 August 1st, 2008 at 9:48 pm
I couldn’t agree more. ^^
I am so sick of the lack of anything with this club. I have been a Mariners fan for as long as I remember. Die Hard is the word most people use. But this was absolutely a useless last few weeks. It makes you seriously wonder if, and not to get all conspiracy theorist here, if Seattle wants to have a baseball team. The way I see it, you keep up the nonsense that has characterized Seattle for the last however many years and you’re going to lose everything. That might sound a little dramatic, but you can’t say it will never happen.
It just seems like Seattle can’t catch a break. Why? Because of the lack of leadership in the front office. This team needs an overhaul from the very top down. Someone who will go after young talent and who’s willing to take a few risks. I could go on and on. But for now, I’ll see how the White Sox do. They picked up Griffey which is good for both camps. Hopefully he gets himself a ring before he calls it quits . . . besides, it’s not like there’s anything noteworthy happening around here.
3 August 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm
I don’t agree that Pelekoudas failed this deadline. The Rhodes deal was perfect. While it’s frustrating that Washburn is still here, he played the right cards. He aimed high, didn’t get what he wanted, now he’ll likely be dumping his salary this month. If he puts him on waivers, which he should be doing soon, the Yankees are going to have first crack at him with their record and they’ll take his entire contract off our hands.
Trading Ibanez had it’s pros and cons, so I can’t blame him for not trading him either, UNLESS Adam Lind was part of the deal with the Blue Jays, which we don’t know and may never know.
If Beltre was traded we would have gotten low-balled. The Giants and Twins both wanted to treat it as a salary dump, so no harm there either.
Anyway.. all we can do is wait and hope for a top notch GM this offseason.
4 August 1st, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Jon how is the Rhodes deal perfect? Our only haul was a mid-tier prospect who may never reach the MLB with any level of success. He has struggled mightily in AA/AAA this year, and who knows if he’ll ever see time in the rotation because of the internal changes being undergone by Rowland-Smith and Morrow.
We should have pushed to trade Ibanez. Even though he is a probable Type-A free agent, the only thing we would have gotten was 2 compensation picks, and if you know baseball, you know the probability of picks that pan out. I’ll tell you if you don’t know: It is a super, super, super slim chance that the players you draft pan out, let alone get past High-A or Double-A.
Beltre, I agree with not dealing, unless we could have milked Scott Baker out of the Twins.
Washburn should have been dealt. There is no way around it. No matter what we get for Washburn via waivers, it won’t be what we could have gotten in trades.
Pelekoudas was too stern with his demands. When you are trying to deal players, baggage, you cannot be so stern that it costs you a change at turning around the future.
5 August 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 am
The Rhodes deal was an excellent trade. Don’t look at his stats this year because he was hurt this year and he’s been pitching in the most hitter friendly park in AAA. The Marlins gave up their #5 prospect for a freaking 39 year old LOOGY. That was a terrible trade by the Marlins. That trade was evidence that teams vastly overpay at the deadline for relievers. Gaby Hernadez was a final cut in ST and almost made their rotation this year. He’s a good prospect and he has a legitimate shot at contributing in the majors.
On Ibanez, a Type A FA means the M’s will get one 1st round pick and a supplemental 1st round pick. That’s a lot and the M’s were smart to try and get good value for Ibanez if they were to tade him and it doesnt matter if there is a chance the picks don’t pan out because stocking all these 1st round picks is a good way to build a farm system. Also next year’s draft is supposed to be very deep.
6 August 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Excellent point about Rhodes Rob.
Just a thought on compensation for Ibanez, what would the Mariners do if Ibanez walks and then signs with, say he returns to Kansas City, and the Royals continue with their dismal season and their pick lands in the top 15?
That would have to be crappy for the M’s, because they would only get the Royals (ex.) 2nd round pick plus the other instead of the first rounder. Just thought that I’d throw that point out there…
7 August 2nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Yo, I know that we would be getting essentially 2 first-round picks, but I would rather have the young left field, MLB producing talent. I don’t care about stocking a farm system with people that will take 3-5 years to contribute.
8 August 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 am
^ I think Dustin has a point.
Thing is, people in Seattle haven’t had anything to celebrate in a long time. The word “rebuilding” has been thrown around so many times. You can only rebuild so many times before you have to admit mistakes are being made. They made a great step in dropping Bavasi, made a small step in getting rid of Rhodes but then what? Nothing. Its been a big disappointment and sadly, fans have had nothing but disappointment for a long time. Dustin hit the nail on the head . . . after so many years of let downs, you get tired of hearing about all these young guys who are supposed to be the next big thing and will take 3-5 years to work out. Then what? Half the time, they end up being a disappointment as well or they end up being traded for a short term solution that ends up bombing. Enough is enough really. I know there is such a thing as building for the future, but the Mariners have been doing that for as long as I can remember and it hasn’t worked out. I think its time to change the strategies and see if we can’t put together a team that might actually make it to a post season for once. Heck, I’d be happy with a competitive team and a winning season.
9 August 3rd, 2008 at 10:15 am
Very agreed.
Rebuilding is not rebuilding once it becomes cellar dwelling.
We can’t use “we’re rebuilding” as an excuse everytime we VASTLY underachieve.
10 August 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
The mariners have never rebuilt. There just a terribly managed team. There are only 2 ways to build a team and sine the M’s can’t sign free agents worth a crap they should be building up the farm system. I never get when someone says it takes too long for the prospects to develop. Every player in the league except some players from Japan was once a prospect. Teams like the A’s, Twins, Marlins, Brewers even the Red Sox stay competitive every year through there farm system and in the Red Sox case also signing FA’s and the A’s and Brewers have had fairly high payrolls in the past also. The Brewers have five 1st round picks next year. That is a very good way to stay competitive for a long time.
11 August 3rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I agree with Rob. We have never rebuilt. Our stupid (ex)GM Bill Bavasi kept thinking we were “one piece away” so he made stupid trades in hopes of boosting the major league team in the short term. Think about acquiring Eduardo Perez for Asdrubal Cabrera a few years ago. Those are the kinds of trades that just kill a team for years to come. I know there are several other examples like this that have just driven this team into the ground.
The Rhodes trade was probably a good trade. Why? Because we looked to the future. We addressed our greatest need with a guy who, according to Rob, is a very decent prospect. But that’s the only thing pelekoudas did. That’s why he failed us this trade deadline. This team needs to rebuild, and it needs to do so now. We need to get some young pitchers some time in the show to see if they’ve got the potential to stick in the rotation next year. We should have dumped Washburn’s salary and plugged hyphen or feierabend into the rotation.
Terrible management is unacceptable. It’s time for change in Seattle.
12 August 3rd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Tim got what I was saying. I’m sick of the word “rebuilding” being thrown around. Deny it all you want, say that we have never rebuilt, but the organization itself has been saying that we’ve been rebuilding from 2003-2006. 2007 was a year in which we competed, and we were only a few moves away from being a playoff team in 2008. Sadly, those moves were not made.
The rebuilding we need to do should not come from trades. It should be internal rebuilding: moving Rowland-Smith and Morrow to AAA to stretch out their arms, call up highly thought of prospects, develop the talent that we have. We shouldn’t have to fire-sale and stock up on our farm system. All that does is tell the fans “we’ll compete for two years, trade away the pieces of success, suck for two years, compete in 2 more years, and then restart the process!” I couldn’t handle that as a fan. As a fan, I like that our organization goes out and finds pieces they think will fill the holes. Now, admittedly, they haven’t made the right moves.
What we needed to do is pull the trigger on a trade that will get us younger, yet still MLB ready talent that can contribute for years to come. We didn’t do that…
13 August 3rd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
The beauty of being a Mariner’s fan is our ownership WILL spend money. We will always have the capacity to add a big free agent, (as long as they’ll come to Seattle). Teams like the A’s are always in a rebuilding mode because good talent becomes unaffordable talent after a few years of major league success. They have to hit the nail squarely on the head with their planning and drafting to be a serious contender.
Most of our farm talent is a few years away: Saunders, Tuiassosopo, Fierabend, Moore, etc., are in their early twenties and won’t begin peaking for three to five more years. Truinfel might be ready about that time, too. When the trade deadline hits next summer, our roster will look much different than it does today. Washburn, Beltre, Bedard, Batista, Putz… all will be shipped for prospects. Couple those prospects with the draft picks from this year and next year and our farm system will be looking better than it has in years. If you consider that we’ll stink in 2010 and probably 2011 as well, add in those high level draft picks, maybe trade Jose Lopez to make room for someone else and collect his worth in minor leaguers, now we’re stockpiling talent. Right about this time our best prospects will be blossoming, the Saunders’ and Truinfels’ and Aumonts’, and they will join Clement, Ichiro (if he’s here), Balentien, Betancourt, Lopez, Morrow, Felix and our bullpen guys who will all be around 27-28 years old, and the whole team will be between the ages of 23-29 and rocking into it’s prime.
Then and only then should the Mariners flex their free agent muscles to plug the holes with veteran talent, (the option the Twins and A’s don’t have). In the meantime, save money and focus on developing prospects.
I don’t think management has been in a rebuilding mode since the early nineties. We’ve been trying to compete through free-agency for years and it has gotten us where we are. If we spend the next five years developing the farm system and pledge to protect it from stupid trades down the road, we will completely change the outlook of this franchise.
Of course, this will require good drafting. No comment about that.
14 August 3rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Dustin- Sure, it would be great to get young MLB ready top talent in these trades, but it’s just not realistic. The only person to possibly pull that off would be Adrian Beltre. Not Washburn, not even Ibanez. I would much rather take compensatory picks than so-so young major leaguers.
I know everyone is frustrated with the organization, but it’s going to continue for a while yet. There is no easy rebound for the hole we’ve dug. Seattle is a mess right now, and steps are being taken in the right direction, believe it or not. Slowly but surely.
Even if Washburn doesn’t get dealt before September, he can still be dealt next year. Ibanez was really the only normal “salary dump” candidate, but he, as stated a million times already, will be a type-A, and he’s not expensive either. Trading guys with multiple years left: Washburn, Batista, Bedard, Beltre etc wasn’t something that HAD to be done.
Some of you disagree, but I think the “no move is better than a bad move” was the right way to go here, especially on guys like Beltre.
15 August 3rd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
In my opinion there is no reason Washburn should still be on this team. There is also no reason Pelekoudas should have been asking so much for him. We should have taken whatever prospect(s) we could get for Washburn.
As for the Rhodes trade, I think we got as good of a prospect as we could for him. As Rob said he is freaking 39 years old and I just dont think we need him on the team at all.
16 August 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Let’s talk about whether washburn deserves to be on this team AFTER vidro gets cut. He should be priority number one.
The guys on this roster are just bad. No way around it and I guess pelekoudas did get shafted with having nothing to do. If I was an opposing GM, I wouldn’t offer any decent talent for a batista or washburn. They are expensive and consistently mediocre/bad.
My expectations for next year are low at best and I will just hope we find ways to get some talent so we can one day compete again.
17 August 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 pm
@Thunderstruck - That’s the thing.. there was no way we were getting any prospects at all for Washburn. The whole thing about us possibly getting Melky Cabrera and/or Brett Gardner was a fabrication by the New York media.. there is no way any GM in baseball would have passed that up.
If Washburn is still around in September, while not the end of the world, it will be disappointing. Pelekoudas should find someone to take his salary by then, though, and at that point I say “job well done.”